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What do you grow that "shouldn't" grow in Zone 4?

So far, I'm a garden wimp, and haven't branched out into the more exotic plants. I'm intending to grow lavender, though, and most of that is called Zone 5. I'm kind of on the cusp, so I'm hoping that a sheltered location will do the trick. Any brave Zone 4-ites with success stories?

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Brenda Bartz on February 19, 2012 at 11:41am

I am z4. I had success for 3 yrs but it is in a bit of a protected area and kind of struggles, but has made it. I have not covered it. It is next to a cow water tank that I use for sick or new fish, but keeps it out of the wind, etc.

Permalink Reply by thea stoughtenger zn4,ny on February 19, 2012 at 4:21pm

Thank you Sandra and Brenda so now i know where to get it ,and i have learned it does not like the wind it likes to be protected . Brenda what kind of fish and do you raise them ?

Permalink Reply by Brenda Bartz on February 19, 2012 at 6:16pm

The fish are Koi, I do share them with friends, not for sale or anything. I have been fortuate to have them spawn the last 3 years. I have had them about 10-12 yrs. It is not real common to keep koi over winter where I am (NE Wis) but I do. The first time I only had 3 babies, the second time about 50, and last summer they were really late and I did not see any babies before the pond froze over, so I am waiting for spring to see if any made it. They seem to spawn about the middle of July here, then by the end of Oct they are about 1 inch long, but last year it was the middle of August and they would have been too small to see. They are so much fun to watch and great therapy for the mind - just love them.

Permalink Reply by thea stoughtenger zn4,ny on February 20, 2012 at 3:38pm

Brenda how do you keep the birds out . i get mud cranes or kranes . and they are huge ,i get seagulls , hawks , and cats . i have started a pond no water yet . but i want to grow water lillys . can you send pictures ?

Permalink Reply by Brenda Bartz on February 20, 2012 at 6:25pm

Thea - Here is my theory: I did research on pond styles, etc, subscribed to a magazine called Koi USA about 5 yrs and some personal experience. My first pond was a "garden pond" with the shelves, about 10 feet across, 18 inches deep = raccoons and hawks. Garden ponds generally have "shelves" in them. I read that if the water is at least 2 feet deep, cranes and herons won't go in it - not sure how true that is. Raccons can reach 10-12 inches into the water. Basically, birds and raccons will get on the shelves to get the fish.

So, I did a new pond that is 22 x 22 x 2 ft, 7000 gallons. No plant shelves, I have slanted slides, no shelves. The pond is 2 ft deep (wanted 3 ft but city ordinances). When the ice freezes it has room to move up and not wreck the liner.

I also use 6-7 bicycle tire inner tubes (cheap) strung together and put 1-2 water lettuce and 1-2 water hyacinth in each one that quickly multiple for cover for the fish and they also spawn on them, come right out of the water actually. I also have about 10-12 water lilies. The koi shuffle the pots around, but generally don't totally destroy. I have had 1 get totally pulled out. The lily leaves also provide cover and the baby koi seem to live down in the stems until they are big enough to swim with the rest as they will eat them.

Something I tried new last year, I took a couple styrofoam containers (cooler), sliced them with a sawsall, lightly held a torch or grill lighter to just barely melt the styrofoam to seal it and put a cheap rubbermaid-type container from the Dolloar Store with holes in it inside the styrofoam ring or a pot that fit and used it as a floating ring and potted up water iris, water parsley, rush, ribbon grass, etc. The styrofoam is about 2 inches thick, so it kind of helps protects the plant from the koi, except the water parlsey, they love that darn stuff. One day I came home and all that was left was the dirt in the pot - too funny. Then I tie 3-4 of them together to make a floating island and not so tipsy with the water iris as it gets 5-6 feet tall. You could probably spray paint them black, but they get green after a while and the plants cover them up too. That gives the koi hiding places too.

In my opinion, I think the minimum 2 feet depth and slanted sides are the key. A true koi raising pond won't have rocks and gravel on the bottom either. When spawning they get pretty violent with males chasing the females. The first year I made round (no sharp edges for the fish to get hurt on)concrete pillars to set my winter pumps on and in the summer I also put a potted plant on them, so that is another thing. Last summer I did add washed stone on half of the bottom where the plants are not which was against my original plan - I am still debating on that one. I like the looks of it, but it was easier to keep the pond clean without out it. Usually a koi pond will have a bottom drain and several venturi (air/fluid mix with a small pump) to create currents to collect the debris to the bottom and give the fish exercise, but that was not an option for me costwise or weatherwise.

I shut my filter pump down for the winter, put in house. I put 3 - 700 gallons pumps on those round pillars, the top of the pillar about 12 inches below the water, so it makes a bubbler which will freeze over. You want the pumps off the bottom because that is where the warm water is and you want that to stay there. I have 2 - 110 watt deicers to keep a hole open in the ice for fresh air exchange. There is pretty much it. My pumps are magnetic drive as they are more energy efficient. I have had an oil driven that put oil in the water when it quit - mess.

I will see if I can get my construction pictures in an album, but if you look at my album that says Friend's Pond you will see the gist of it. Her's is smaller, about 2500 gallons. She lives in the woods and has not had predator problems so far. Her's is 3 feet deep and I think it measured 11 x 12 ft or 10 x 12 ft - nice size for 10 koi or so. I would suggesting going that deep, at least if, you can. Let me know if I can be of any more help. Sorry this got so long, just trying to be helpful.

Brenda

Permalink Reply by thea stoughtenger zn4,ny on February 20, 2012 at 8:53pm

Brenda thats was not to long for me . i enjoyed it . my pond is 4 ft. deep so far am thinking of putting in something that i could put in to make like a hole in the side and put a liner over it then fill that with dirt and a plant . i did not want black . i would like blue liner i like the more calming color . but even that is subject to change .so thank you for all the information .